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@Sonofason
Let's just move right on into ships going over curvature.
11. Ships
This is the reason Aristotle claimed the earth was curved, or a ball. First, let's examine Aristotle himself. Everyone knows and admits he was a brilliant philosophical genius, but a scientist, he wasn't. Right or wrong though, his ideas seemed to be set in stone.
Isaac Asimov noted: "No matter who disagreed with them, even other philosophers, Aristotles ideas - whether right or wrong - usually won out."
John Appeldoorn writes "Aristotles teachings were unquestioned. After eighteen centuries, universities accepted them as if they had been written in stone"
He did not believe plants were separate in sex, and there the matter stood for 2,000 years, until in the 1700's, botanists pointed out the obvious.
He also wrote "The brain is an organ of minor importance, perhaps necessary to cool the blood"
When Democritus theorized that the world and everything in it was comprised of small pieces of matter that he dubbed "atoms", Aristotle proclaimed tish-tosh, everything is in fact made from tiny pieces of each of the 4 elements, which was written down as fact by the universities until scientists in the 16th century reexamined the theory.
In actuality, Aristotle set the scientific field back 2,000 years in some cases, more in others, we can't all excel in every subject we attempt.
Which leads me to ships. He watched ships disappear from the bottom up as they left for sea. This led him to believe that the water was curved. This was also 4th century B.C., before telescopic lenses were even dreamed up. Now that we have binoculars, telescopes and awesome cameras with ultra zoom capabilities, we can, and should, reexamine his theory.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/hands-review/nikon-p900-new-king-superzooms
Next time you're at the beach, take a pair of binos. Wait for a ship to seemingly disappear over the horizon and pull out the binos, and you've magically pulled the entire ship backwards over the "curvature" of the earth! Bring a telescope or p900 to make it come back again after it disappears in the binos!
These videos litter the internet now, dispelling this myth, and we can conclude that ships do not go over any curvature, and water, and the earth, is flat, as common sense tells us.
Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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Why do you consider the lines in the wooden board as receding, but not the lines in the last picture? In both cases one end of the line is at a point far away and the other end is at a point near the viewer. The only difference here in the rays of sun picture is that in addition to being far, the other end is also higher (the hole in the cloud). But the effect is the same. You can imagine one end of the surface on the wooden plank picture, propped up against something that it slants towards the viewer. The lines will still maintain the angled appearence...
Even easier is if you imagine standing on a straight uphill road. You look up and away, you see that edges of the road appear angled to each other...
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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You say the difference is obvious. But that does not help if you are not able to state the obvious!
I will give you another challenge. Imagine a long rod, say half mile long. Attach two lasers on either end of this rod that the laser beams are perfectly parellel to each other and both perpendicular to the rod. Now imagine this contraption hung from a point 10 miles away from you and 1 mile high, in such a way that the laser beams fall one mile in front of you on the ground
Now, Try to imagine what you will see?
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Do you also see these end posts as parallel?
There seems to be some huge misunderstanding. Perhaps you can also explain this hotspot under the sun .
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZ_FVORUUAA7Lfh.jpg
Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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I get your point, and it would be plausible if I had posted a picture similar to this one:
But I chose that picture specifically because I've been in this discussion a few times, yes, the origin of the rays above are all further away from the eye than the point they reach the earth. In my image, the rays in the back are going the opposite way so that from either angle the rays can be traced back to the point of origin, above the clouds.
Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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You still interested?
Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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yes, the origin of the rays above are all further away from the eye than the point they reach th@Erfisflat
Ok. Now we have agreed upon that, I will expl@Erfisflat
> the rays in the back are going the oppsite way
We have seen that how the rays appear angled to each other when the hole in the cloud is away and higher, and the point of incidence in near the obserrver and on the ground. Now imagine what happens if the point of incidence, where the rays are hitting the ground, is far too. This is the graph that plot distance of an rod of length 500 units, from the observer to the angle it subtends at the eye. https://pasteboard.co/h9gGQFqWY.png What you can see here is that the angle substended at the eye, which is the size of the object we perceive, reduces rapidly, before almost leveling off. What this result is that if the point of incidence is also far from the viewer, the viewer will percieve the rays as almost parallel (as you can see for the rays near the center of your picture, which are also falling much far into the sea.
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" yes, the origin of the rays above are all further away from the eye than the point they reach th@Erfisflat
Ok. Now we have agreed upon that, I will expl@Erfisflat "
You're ignoring my image and my statement :
"In my image, the rays in the back are going the opposite way so that from either angle the rays can be traced back to the point of origin, above the clouds."
For the rays in the back, that are going away from the observer, the point of origin in the clouds is closer than the point that they reach the earth.
"We have seen that how the rays appear angled to each other when the hole in the cloud is away and higher, and the point of incidence in near the obserrver and on the ground. Now imagine what happens if the point of incidence, where the rays are hitting the ground, is far too. This is the graph that plot distance of an rod of length 500 units, from the observer to the angle it subtends at the eye.https://pasteboard.co/h9gGQFqWY.png What you can see here is that the angle substended at the eye, which is the size of the object we perceive, reduces rapidly, before almost leveling off. What this result is that if the point of incidence is also far from the viewer, the viewer will percieve the rays as almost parallel (as you can see for the rays near the center of your picture, which are also falling much far into the sea."- Crazyturtle
Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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>For the rays in the back, that are going away from the observer..
Ok. This seems to be the root of all your misunderstandings. How did you conclude that they are going away from the observer? For the looks of it?
Take the original picture, the one with rays over a sea. In it, take the rays that are on the right hand side, and closest to the observer. You agree that these rays are not going away from the observer, right?
Now move these rays (only the right one, and leave their right counterparts as such) and the cloud that cast it together, backwards and after a while they will appear just like the rays that appears to "go away from the user" in the last picture...
Regarding the last part of my last post which you replied with jackie chan, I am not sure it is relavant anymore as the above point seem to be the root of your misunderstandings. In case you want me to clarify it, please let me know if you understand what the graph means.
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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The most funny thing about this conversation is that the same people who rejects thousands of photographs on the basis that it can be faked ends up using for proof.....drumroll.....
"a photograph that looks obviously photo shopped!"
Somebody should make a meme out of that!
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The huge difference? Verifiability. I've also proved my claims of photoshop. You?
Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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And you didn't prove anything. And you also did not try to understand the explanations I provided. You just replied with some memes that were ...quite frankly...pathetic. If you want to hold a conversation without irritating people, cut down on the memes. It might make you feel smarter...but n reality they are actually preventing you from getting smarter....
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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Can you show him that, I can't find it!?
Here is another good example:
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In the past 10 years, how many experiment did NASA scuba Astronauts show us done "outside" the ISS? Like put a bowling ball with marbles orbiting it? They don't even have to spin it in orbit, just let the "space-fabric" guide it in, like this:
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I'm repeating myself here, but I'll explain my position once again. Gravity is a theory without an ounce of practical evidence. We see things fall simply because the molecules that make up the air under the apple are less dense than the apple.
Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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Post one.
Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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In the meantime, let's examine more evidence that water (and the earth) is flat.
The specular highlight.
Light reflects off of convex surfaces in unique ways.
This is a linear reflection.
The light from the sun or moon is elongated here, and mirror like here.
There's the problem, curved surfaces produce specular highlights, and shrunken, warped reflections on a ball. These expected results have never been found. It would even be safe to say that a reflection of the sun would be impossible to see, since the observer is at point 1 in this diagram. The reflection would only be visible at or near point 7.
Samuel Rowbotham wrote in Zetectic Astronomy:
IF the earth is a globe, and is 25,000 English statute miles in circumference, the surface of all standing water must have a certain degree of convexity--every part must be an arc of a circle. From the summit of any such arc there will exist a curvature or declination of 8 inches in the first statute mile. In the second mile the fall will be 32 inches; in the third mile, 72 inches, or 6 feet"
When the math is done, it should curve 6 feet down in just 3 miles from the sea level, and, being a ball, would curve very sharply with over a mile drop from only 100 miles, so we should see these effects on our lakes and oceans. It would be a very noticable drop. To show this in observational experimentation, flatten out a long piece of reflective material, such as sheet metal. I like to use the side with imperfections, to simulate waves.
Since we are very close to the earth in comparison to the sun, we hold the material up to the eye, and point it at a source of light, now bend that material, even the slightest, and the reflection will not remain. Now consider where the sun is at the time if sunset for any observer. Logically, any curve would interrupt this line of light between the source of light and the observer, this is the reason we see shadows being cast by ripples. Since this reflection is impossible to get on a ball, but experimentally reproduced with a flat surface, this is an empirical proof that there is no curvature to water.
Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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I have explained this a few times now.
Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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How does the night/day model for a flat earth explain the nights and days we observe on other planets, or the sunlight that reflects off the moon?
Also, the scale of the ocean is too large for there to be a specular reflection.
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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We can physically see the planets very clearly. You can do this yourself by taking at a telescope, finding jupiter, tracking it across the course of several nights, and taking photographs. Lots of amateur astronomers do this. I haven't compiled a video of it myself but I've seen the changes. Here's an example of an amateur making a GIF of Jupiter's rotation:
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But empirically measuring the earth > looking at objects in the firmament. Maybe this would be better off on the space is fake debate.
Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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I’ll mention it in the space debate if it’s brought up, but I think it’s still pertinent to this one. Jupiter has plenty of moons and they’re all at different orbits and distance from the planet, so from some perspectives it looks like there are no moons at all. Here’s one where one of the moons is visible:
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Obvious differences, and I'm trying to word this differently when I say this, but it doesn't really matter what shape lights appear to be in the sky. If this is the best proof there is for a spherical earth, well I'm sure you'll agree flat earth wins this debate..
Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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Admittedly it isn't the best evidence but it's what we're talking about right now. They’re not “lights in the sky,” they’re planets and you can clearly see them rotating for yourself.
http://www.phy.ohiou.edu/~tss/ASTR410/Kelley04/jupmass.html
On a side note personally I think the best evidence, and only evidence you need, are multiple pictures from different reliable sources, which we have. I think we’ve exhausted that subject beyond being able to change each other’s opinions though.
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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I do. Of course it’s easy to fake planets and space landscapes on Photoshop (I would know, I make space scenes on PS all the time for fun).
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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@melanielust
So you admit that photo shopping images of earth is easy, claim that they took a picture over 50 years ago, which is demonstrably fake, probably a painting,
Then claim that despite 50 years of technological advancement, that now it's too hard, while parroting an excuse from NASA? It wouldn't take a fraction of their budget to strap the best camera money can buy to a rocket, fly it far enough away, turn it around and take a picture. You seem like a relatively intelligent person, do you know what intellectually dishonest means? No disrespect intended, and I appreciate the skepticism, but you should apply that same level of skepticism to your arguments as well.
Intellectual dishonesty is a failure to apply standards of rational evaluation that one is aware of, usually in a self-serving fashion. If one judges others more critically than oneself, that is intellectually dishonest.
Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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Jupiter rotates Eastward, in prograde motion. The first GIF was simply turned upside down; notice how the Red Spot is towards the top, when in reality it’s towards the bottom.
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